Haha, kind of funny to me how you're alarmed over 2kg in 3 weeks :) I routinely gain 3kg (6lbs) the first day when I stop a strict diet and go on a binge ;)
But sounds like you're making the discovery that a lot of people in r/saturatedfat are making - The Croissant Diet alone doesn't help everyone lose weight, and some even gain weight on it.
Suspects:
1. Just because PUFA put you into this metabolic state doesn't mean cutting out PUFA alone will reverse it/make you lose weight
2. It's not just PUFA, but PUFA + {BCAA,fructose} for example
3. It's not PUFA, but something else (e.g. BCAA, fructose)
Now even if PUFA didn't contribute at all, I'd probably still cut them out. I just don't see a reason, and it's such a small change where my diet already is.
But if you're seeing yourself gain weight eating like this, I'd consider still staying off the PUFAs but also cutting out something else. You could start with almost all carbs, and see how that goes. If that doesn't make you lose, you could cut protein down. Then you're basically at ex150 ;)
Just a thought. I highly recommend r/saturatedfat btw if you're on Reddit, it's really great.
Even the most ardent anti-PUFA people don't claim that it causes weight loss short-term. But I've seen a lot of people claiming that after a while it causes weight stability while eating ad lib (and at that point they can willpower it off and it stays off for good instead of coming back), and a few people claiming that after years of no-PUFA they just go back to normal and magically achieve a normal weight.
Not sure I *believe* them, but it's the most interesting obviously wrong idea I've seen in years. I like interesting but obviously wrong ideas. Things like 'the earth rotates' and 'the stars are other suns' were in that class once.
I'm sure seeing a lot of anecdata just like you describe. The latest SM TM post (https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2023/06/23/half-tato-diet-analysis/) has the outlier who lost 17lbs (!) say that she followed Brad from Fire in a Bottle and supplements stearic acid. Safe to say she avoids PUFA haha. One of the participants in my trial lost nearly 15lbs in 30 days. She'd been 3 months on TCD before ex150.
So there might just be something to a 3 month wash-out of PUFA, flushing them with SFA maybe, and then diets will work?
> So there might just be something to a 3 month wash-out of PUFA, flushing them with SFA maybe, and then diets will work?
Who knows? Some of the anti-PUFA people seem to be claiming this, and the stuff's got a long half-life in the body....
On the other hand, giving up PUFA seems to involve giving up all processed food, so the problem that's getting flushed out might be any one of the novel chemicals in that.
Maybe even the breakdown products of vegetable oil used for commercial frying, which look horrifying.
I like to look at it the other way: getting rid of processed food mostly means giving up PUFAs and fructose. The air drying and canning isn't making anybody obese.
Definitely maybe. But there's all sorts of other crap in food packets, the ingredients lists are like chemistry sets. And all of it will have been carefully tested to check it does no short-term damage to rats.
Even the canning! Cans are lined with plastic these days. Plastics leak things into adjacent fluids.
Could be sodding anything, really. But I must say my money's on PUFAs and maybe preservatives mostly.
Not too worried about fructose myself, things like Lyle's Golden Syrup were eaten regularly by generations of English children back since 1863.
> Haha, kind of funny to me how you're alarmed over 2kg in 3 weeks :)
Sorry! I've always been one of those annoying bastards who can eat what they like and my weight never changes. (Except it goes up if I'm being excessively sporty... Muscles weigh something...)
I'm new to all this. But it does mean that I *know* that the obesity crisis isn't caused by sloth and gluttony. I've been gluttonous and alternately slothful and insanely sporty my whole life, and weight's been so not-an-issue for me that I don't actually know what I weighed for most of it.
Something has gone wrong with whatever mechanism used to balance calories-in calories out for me. And maybe it's the same thing that's ruining the lives of young people who are foolish enough to eat the modern diet. And maybe it's the same thing that's causing an epidemic of modern disorders that look awfully like thyroid trouble but aren't thyroid trouble.
I want to know what's going on more than I want to fix the problem. But I also want to fix the problem....
I think I've actually read that paper! It seems to my uneducated eye to be competently and cleverly done and if it replicates then it's a hammer blow to the idea that PUFA causes obesity in any straightforward way. But if it was straightforward I think we'd already know.
My objection to PUFAs is more that they seem to be a novel foodstuff from the point of view of human evolution. And it's usually a very bad idea to try to run a chemical reaction using a slightly different substrate while relying on things to work out the same.
On the other hand it wouldn't take much to convince me that things like hazlenuts and walnuts are fine.
But for the moment, something is making people who eat the Western Diet exceedingly ill. And PUFA is a very characteristic, very large, very non-traditional feature of modern food.
So I'm just ruling it out from caprice, because it looks like the sort of thing that might be bad. It might well not be. I'm just suspicious....
Haha, kind of funny to me how you're alarmed over 2kg in 3 weeks :) I routinely gain 3kg (6lbs) the first day when I stop a strict diet and go on a binge ;)
But sounds like you're making the discovery that a lot of people in r/saturatedfat are making - The Croissant Diet alone doesn't help everyone lose weight, and some even gain weight on it.
Suspects:
1. Just because PUFA put you into this metabolic state doesn't mean cutting out PUFA alone will reverse it/make you lose weight
2. It's not just PUFA, but PUFA + {BCAA,fructose} for example
3. It's not PUFA, but something else (e.g. BCAA, fructose)
Now even if PUFA didn't contribute at all, I'd probably still cut them out. I just don't see a reason, and it's such a small change where my diet already is.
But if you're seeing yourself gain weight eating like this, I'd consider still staying off the PUFAs but also cutting out something else. You could start with almost all carbs, and see how that goes. If that doesn't make you lose, you could cut protein down. Then you're basically at ex150 ;)
Just a thought. I highly recommend r/saturatedfat btw if you're on Reddit, it's really great.
I like r/saturatedfat, we've talked there!
Even the most ardent anti-PUFA people don't claim that it causes weight loss short-term. But I've seen a lot of people claiming that after a while it causes weight stability while eating ad lib (and at that point they can willpower it off and it stays off for good instead of coming back), and a few people claiming that after years of no-PUFA they just go back to normal and magically achieve a normal weight.
Not sure I *believe* them, but it's the most interesting obviously wrong idea I've seen in years. I like interesting but obviously wrong ideas. Things like 'the earth rotates' and 'the stars are other suns' were in that class once.
I'm sure seeing a lot of anecdata just like you describe. The latest SM TM post (https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2023/06/23/half-tato-diet-analysis/) has the outlier who lost 17lbs (!) say that she followed Brad from Fire in a Bottle and supplements stearic acid. Safe to say she avoids PUFA haha. One of the participants in my trial lost nearly 15lbs in 30 days. She'd been 3 months on TCD before ex150.
So there might just be something to a 3 month wash-out of PUFA, flushing them with SFA maybe, and then diets will work?
> So there might just be something to a 3 month wash-out of PUFA, flushing them with SFA maybe, and then diets will work?
Who knows? Some of the anti-PUFA people seem to be claiming this, and the stuff's got a long half-life in the body....
On the other hand, giving up PUFA seems to involve giving up all processed food, so the problem that's getting flushed out might be any one of the novel chemicals in that.
Maybe even the breakdown products of vegetable oil used for commercial frying, which look horrifying.
I like to look at it the other way: getting rid of processed food mostly means giving up PUFAs and fructose. The air drying and canning isn't making anybody obese.
Definitely maybe. But there's all sorts of other crap in food packets, the ingredients lists are like chemistry sets. And all of it will have been carefully tested to check it does no short-term damage to rats.
Even the canning! Cans are lined with plastic these days. Plastics leak things into adjacent fluids.
Could be sodding anything, really. But I must say my money's on PUFAs and maybe preservatives mostly.
Not too worried about fructose myself, things like Lyle's Golden Syrup were eaten regularly by generations of English children back since 1863.
> One of the participants in my trial lost....
Oooh, how's that going?
Pretty good :) 2 people have finished so far, will post case studies soon.
Oh come on.... Is it working?!!
Yes and yes.
> Haha, kind of funny to me how you're alarmed over 2kg in 3 weeks :)
Sorry! I've always been one of those annoying bastards who can eat what they like and my weight never changes. (Except it goes up if I'm being excessively sporty... Muscles weigh something...)
I'm new to all this. But it does mean that I *know* that the obesity crisis isn't caused by sloth and gluttony. I've been gluttonous and alternately slothful and insanely sporty my whole life, and weight's been so not-an-issue for me that I don't actually know what I weighed for most of it.
Something has gone wrong with whatever mechanism used to balance calories-in calories out for me. And maybe it's the same thing that's ruining the lives of young people who are foolish enough to eat the modern diet. And maybe it's the same thing that's causing an epidemic of modern disorders that look awfully like thyroid trouble but aren't thyroid trouble.
I want to know what's going on more than I want to fix the problem. But I also want to fix the problem....
This really doesn't seem to be working. Why don't you try a deliberately high PUFA diet, but without any refined, nutrient stripped oils?
Walnuts, sardines, chia seeds, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds. I bet you'll actually lean out.
Some relevant discussion:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260253803_Overfeeding_Polyunsaturated_and_Saturated_Fat_Causes_Distinct_Effects_on_Liver_and_Visceral_Fat_Accumulation_in_Humans
I think I've actually read that paper! It seems to my uneducated eye to be competently and cleverly done and if it replicates then it's a hammer blow to the idea that PUFA causes obesity in any straightforward way. But if it was straightforward I think we'd already know.
My objection to PUFAs is more that they seem to be a novel foodstuff from the point of view of human evolution. And it's usually a very bad idea to try to run a chemical reaction using a slightly different substrate while relying on things to work out the same.
On the other hand it wouldn't take much to convince me that things like hazlenuts and walnuts are fine.
But for the moment, something is making people who eat the Western Diet exceedingly ill. And PUFA is a very characteristic, very large, very non-traditional feature of modern food.
So I'm just ruling it out from caprice, because it looks like the sort of thing that might be bad. It might well not be. I'm just suspicious....