I believe that ExFatLoss's summary of the fire-in-a-bottle summary of the effects of PUFAs would suggest that since you're probably 8% PUFAs by bodyweight yourself, all your minor weight loss did was tap into them enough to mess with your thermostat a little. That plus the fact that losing weight without fixing the thermostat always results in gaining the weight back. I don't weigh myself more than a couple of times a year, but your graph looks like how my weight feels most times. It'll trend up for a while, and then trend down. Often this tracks with the seasons, as it well-studied. I went from 250 to 230 over the summer, had a bad few days without access to enough food, seem to have freaked my thermostat out a little, and now feel like I'm trending upwards slightly.
Looks i was remembering a section in his "8 mysteries of obesity" post where he talks about FIB. Relevant quote:
"One other nasty effect if this theory is true: if you’ve gotten fat eating seed oils, you have presumably stored those PUFAs in your own adipose tissue (assuming you’re monogastric like a pig, not a cow). When you subsequently burn your own body fat, you’re burning said PUFAs in your mitochondria, where it begins messing you up again.
This might be why almost all diets are self-limiting. After a certain amount of fat loss your metabolism turns down, you become hungry all the time, and eventually willpower is not enough to keep going."
Yes one theory we have is that ex150 works by flooding the bloodstream with saturated fats, masking off the evil effects of PUFAs, which are otherwise preferentially released from stores, I think.
But that doesn't explain why my initial *ten days* of ex150ish seems to have precipitated two months of rapid weight loss, or why that effect has suddenly reversed now. The only relevant-seeming difference with heart-attack-keto was extra protein.
No, I'm saying that for whatever reason you were having an easier time eating less (as happens to me quite frequently) and after a while of effortlessly eating less the pufas from your stored body fat that you were burning started fucking with you.
Yes but I've clearly been burning my own body fat for a couple of months, what's suddenly changed? Might be the heart-attack-keto thing, that sure seemed to work differently from ex150ish, both at the time and now the after effects.
My metabolism still seems to be running hot, my thyroid dose is about half what it used to be, and any higher I overheat.
I'd expect your weight to creep back up to where it would have been without any interventions, maybe a little higher. You could try supplementing with stearic acid like our friend exfatloss is now.
1. Protein is also a major hypothesis of mine. I don't know if it's a primary factor or only a factor once-you're-PUFA'd but it's clearly a factor in me, and many others.
2. It could very well be that there's some lingering effect of burning the saturated fat? I don't know how exactly this would work, but clearly many people experience fat loss/gain in "bouts" of days, weeks, or even months. This makes me thing it's somehow not exactly a day-to-day issue. Even though your graph begins to look like mine initially, with pretty clear "switchbacks" when going on/off the diet.
> Even though your graph begins to look like mine initially, with pretty clear "switchbacks" when going on/off the diet.
I was thinking that. The first two goes, the rebound is clearly 'water-weight', the one or two kilos of water-bound glycogen that you'd expect from keto. And the rapid weight loss appears to have just continued regardless, even after I was back to eating normally.
But the third rebound was weird. Weight measurement suddenly very noisy, doesn't look like water-weight at all, and an underlying trend of really fast weight gain. About the same speed as the really fast weight loss of the previous two months. Much more like what your off-periods look like.
I am thinking heart-attack-keto caused me to 'switch mode' somehow. Really weird, but the only real difference between that an ex150ish was lots of extra cheese and beef.
Could it be that the high protein is causing the switch? Next time you end a bout of ex150, maybe try eating a balanced diet instead of ketoing and see what happens.... (Beware of refeeding syndrome, easy does it...) You can use melatonin to control your sleep issues. (https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/)
Controlling your sleep issues with melatonin is extremely difficult - most people on DSPS/Non-24 don't manage to do it. Those who do usually took years of experimentation.
I believe that ExFatLoss's summary of the fire-in-a-bottle summary of the effects of PUFAs would suggest that since you're probably 8% PUFAs by bodyweight yourself, all your minor weight loss did was tap into them enough to mess with your thermostat a little. That plus the fact that losing weight without fixing the thermostat always results in gaining the weight back. I don't weigh myself more than a couple of times a year, but your graph looks like how my weight feels most times. It'll trend up for a while, and then trend down. Often this tracks with the seasons, as it well-studied. I went from 250 to 230 over the summer, had a bad few days without access to enough food, seem to have freaked my thermostat out a little, and now feel like I'm trending upwards slightly.
Ooh, where is exfatloss's summary?
Looks i was remembering a section in his "8 mysteries of obesity" post where he talks about FIB. Relevant quote:
"One other nasty effect if this theory is true: if you’ve gotten fat eating seed oils, you have presumably stored those PUFAs in your own adipose tissue (assuming you’re monogastric like a pig, not a cow). When you subsequently burn your own body fat, you’re burning said PUFAs in your mitochondria, where it begins messing you up again.
This might be why almost all diets are self-limiting. After a certain amount of fat loss your metabolism turns down, you become hungry all the time, and eventually willpower is not enough to keep going."
Yes one theory we have is that ex150 works by flooding the bloodstream with saturated fats, masking off the evil effects of PUFAs, which are otherwise preferentially released from stores, I think.
But that doesn't explain why my initial *ten days* of ex150ish seems to have precipitated two months of rapid weight loss, or why that effect has suddenly reversed now. The only relevant-seeming difference with heart-attack-keto was extra protein.
No, I'm saying that for whatever reason you were having an easier time eating less (as happens to me quite frequently) and after a while of effortlessly eating less the pufas from your stored body fat that you were burning started fucking with you.
Yes but I've clearly been burning my own body fat for a couple of months, what's suddenly changed? Might be the heart-attack-keto thing, that sure seemed to work differently from ex150ish, both at the time and now the after effects.
My metabolism still seems to be running hot, my thyroid dose is about half what it used to be, and any higher I overheat.
Any predictions about what happens next?
I'd expect your weight to creep back up to where it would have been without any interventions, maybe a little higher. You could try supplementing with stearic acid like our friend exfatloss is now.
1. Protein is also a major hypothesis of mine. I don't know if it's a primary factor or only a factor once-you're-PUFA'd but it's clearly a factor in me, and many others.
2. It could very well be that there's some lingering effect of burning the saturated fat? I don't know how exactly this would work, but clearly many people experience fat loss/gain in "bouts" of days, weeks, or even months. This makes me thing it's somehow not exactly a day-to-day issue. Even though your graph begins to look like mine initially, with pretty clear "switchbacks" when going on/off the diet.
> Even though your graph begins to look like mine initially, with pretty clear "switchbacks" when going on/off the diet.
I was thinking that. The first two goes, the rebound is clearly 'water-weight', the one or two kilos of water-bound glycogen that you'd expect from keto. And the rapid weight loss appears to have just continued regardless, even after I was back to eating normally.
But the third rebound was weird. Weight measurement suddenly very noisy, doesn't look like water-weight at all, and an underlying trend of really fast weight gain. About the same speed as the really fast weight loss of the previous two months. Much more like what your off-periods look like.
I am thinking heart-attack-keto caused me to 'switch mode' somehow. Really weird, but the only real difference between that an ex150ish was lots of extra cheese and beef.
Could it be that the high protein is causing the switch? Next time you end a bout of ex150, maybe try eating a balanced diet instead of ketoing and see what happens.... (Beware of refeeding syndrome, easy does it...) You can use melatonin to control your sleep issues. (https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/)
Controlling your sleep issues with melatonin is extremely difficult - most people on DSPS/Non-24 don't manage to do it. Those who do usually took years of experimentation.