Very interesting. I wonder what this would tell us. Fruit has near zero PUFA, near zero protein. But it randle cycles all over the swamp. Although we know fructose is weird, so maybe it doesn't count into the swamp if eaten on its own?
Are you eating the fruit with the cream, or separately? And how much fruit a day? Much fruit is actually insanely low in sugar, if you look it up. Mostly water.
You got me thinking about cream, and why it curdles when you put fruit in it. It's the acid, making the protein clump.
Did you know that you can make sour cream by adding vinegar to ordinary cream? In fact it's a traditional method. It happens very fast. Just tried it and it's nice, but then I love vinegar. Any acid should work. Maybe even tomato sauce?
So then I got to thinking about your thing with sour cream->hyperphagia, cream->satiety (which I don't get, they seem the same to me).
You might want to experiment with this. If tomato sauce and cream on their own are fine, but if you mix them they turn you into a starving wolf, then something very interesting is going on, right?
I do think it's the acidity. Was just messaging with someone who had the same: cream fine, sour cream hyperphagia. My craziest hyperphagia maybe ever was eating ad-lib sour cream + salsa (spicy & very acidic).
You want to work out what counts as mixing. I mean 'alternate spoonfuls fine but stir them together not fine'? Or even 'an hour apart fine but half-an-hour apart not fine'? Something funny going on there for sure.
I was pouring the salsa over the sour cream. I assume alternate spoons would be similar. Hour apart might be fine. In my experience, my protein induced hyperphagia shows up at around 15-30min and disappears after 45-120min if I don't act on it by eating more protein. I haven't timed it exactly.
Very odd. Foods mixed are often nicer than foods separate, I mean I'm much better at eating oranges and cinnamon and sugar all mixed up than I am at eating any of those things on its own, but I don't think there's any sort of dramatic difference, it's just that some things go well together.
So so far I've mainly been eating one orange and one apple a day, usually chopped up with cinnamon and smothered in cream (totally recommended!). ChatGPT is reckoning that's about 157kcal's worth of carbs, biased towards fructose but plenty glucose in there too. Normal googling agrees.
Also there's some chopped up fruit in my stew, which still tastes sweet.
I'm wondering if that's enough to keep me out of ketosis or not?
This morning's scale weight was 93.2kg, so no 'water weight regain' from eating that lasagne, which is surprising because it sure felt like I was recarbing. I felt really tired for an hour or so, and I was a bit woozy this morning too for the first time in a while.
I wonder if I'm systemically short of glucose but still have stores in muscles or something. In which case the weight loss from a couple of weeks of this is kind of terrifying.
Ok, that's almost nothing then. I think one apple/orange has maybe 15g of carbs? I thought you were eating a bag a day.
In terms of swamping, that doesn't move the needle very much. 157kcal is probably <5% of your TEE. It might be enough to lower your ketosis, or it might not. I can definitely be in ketosis on ~20g of pure sugar a day.
Don't know if I find the weight loss terrifying, more fascinating. Since.. nothing changed, right? Or did the 2 pieces of fruit do it?
I wasn't keeping notes, it was just the run-up to doing ex150ish+fruit. From memory, the day we were talking in the comments, or maybe the day after, I went shopping and all I bought was ex150ish stuff, cream and beef and tomato passata and butter. I'd already run out of bread and cheese but there were loads of yams and potatoes left so I started making them into chips and shallow-frying them in butter. Probably ate a pan or so a day until they ran out. So apart from those chips I was probably eating ex150ish. Also there would have been oranges and apples, probably one of each a day? And some kale and spinach which mostly got fried in butter and eaten. Some of it made it into the stew.
Oh and some milk, I had a 2litre bottle of milk which I was also running down by drinking it.
So essentially ex150ish+carbs. I wasn't really paying attention. It wasn't until I put my numbers into my spreadsheet at the end of the week and saw the curve that I suddenly thought "crikey, something going on there".
Very interesting. I wonder what this would tell us. Fruit has near zero PUFA, near zero protein. But it randle cycles all over the swamp. Although we know fructose is weird, so maybe it doesn't count into the swamp if eaten on its own?
Are you eating the fruit with the cream, or separately? And how much fruit a day? Much fruit is actually insanely low in sugar, if you look it up. Mostly water.
You got me thinking about cream, and why it curdles when you put fruit in it. It's the acid, making the protein clump.
Did you know that you can make sour cream by adding vinegar to ordinary cream? In fact it's a traditional method. It happens very fast. Just tried it and it's nice, but then I love vinegar. Any acid should work. Maybe even tomato sauce?
So then I got to thinking about your thing with sour cream->hyperphagia, cream->satiety (which I don't get, they seem the same to me).
You might want to experiment with this. If tomato sauce and cream on their own are fine, but if you mix them they turn you into a starving wolf, then something very interesting is going on, right?
I do think it's the acidity. Was just messaging with someone who had the same: cream fine, sour cream hyperphagia. My craziest hyperphagia maybe ever was eating ad-lib sour cream + salsa (spicy & very acidic).
You want to work out what counts as mixing. I mean 'alternate spoonfuls fine but stir them together not fine'? Or even 'an hour apart fine but half-an-hour apart not fine'? Something funny going on there for sure.
I was pouring the salsa over the sour cream. I assume alternate spoons would be similar. Hour apart might be fine. In my experience, my protein induced hyperphagia shows up at around 15-30min and disappears after 45-120min if I don't act on it by eating more protein. I haven't timed it exactly.
Very odd. Foods mixed are often nicer than foods separate, I mean I'm much better at eating oranges and cinnamon and sugar all mixed up than I am at eating any of those things on its own, but I don't think there's any sort of dramatic difference, it's just that some things go well together.
So so far I've mainly been eating one orange and one apple a day, usually chopped up with cinnamon and smothered in cream (totally recommended!). ChatGPT is reckoning that's about 157kcal's worth of carbs, biased towards fructose but plenty glucose in there too. Normal googling agrees.
Also there's some chopped up fruit in my stew, which still tastes sweet.
I'm wondering if that's enough to keep me out of ketosis or not?
This morning's scale weight was 93.2kg, so no 'water weight regain' from eating that lasagne, which is surprising because it sure felt like I was recarbing. I felt really tired for an hour or so, and I was a bit woozy this morning too for the first time in a while.
I wonder if I'm systemically short of glucose but still have stores in muscles or something. In which case the weight loss from a couple of weeks of this is kind of terrifying.
Ok, that's almost nothing then. I think one apple/orange has maybe 15g of carbs? I thought you were eating a bag a day.
In terms of swamping, that doesn't move the needle very much. 157kcal is probably <5% of your TEE. It might be enough to lower your ketosis, or it might not. I can definitely be in ketosis on ~20g of pure sugar a day.
Don't know if I find the weight loss terrifying, more fascinating. Since.. nothing changed, right? Or did the 2 pieces of fruit do it?
The funny thing is that most of it happened the previous week, when I was eating buckets of carbs.
That tells us something. Describe the buckets of carbs? Were you still doing the cream, or what else were you eating besides the buckets?
I wasn't keeping notes, it was just the run-up to doing ex150ish+fruit. From memory, the day we were talking in the comments, or maybe the day after, I went shopping and all I bought was ex150ish stuff, cream and beef and tomato passata and butter. I'd already run out of bread and cheese but there were loads of yams and potatoes left so I started making them into chips and shallow-frying them in butter. Probably ate a pan or so a day until they ran out. So apart from those chips I was probably eating ex150ish. Also there would have been oranges and apples, probably one of each a day? And some kale and spinach which mostly got fried in butter and eaten. Some of it made it into the stew.
Oh and some milk, I had a 2litre bottle of milk which I was also running down by drinking it.
So essentially ex150ish+carbs. I wasn't really paying attention. It wasn't until I put my numbers into my spreadsheet at the end of the week and saw the curve that I suddenly thought "crikey, something going on there".
> 2litre bottle of milk
2 litres? The milk must be from that sugra village.
Hm, hard to say then. Could be potato magic (tm), who knows.
I can't believe you've come up with your own spelling of a word you don't even use....