??? Likewise, great reduction of n-6 in my diet has resolved a # of health issues. never goin' back, again.
About the mongongo - "The high content of α-eleostearic acid, a conjugated linolenic acid, is a key characteristic that differentiates mongongo oil from other plant oils." No idea what that implies, but may be a clue.
Oh that's a good point, I was assuming that Mongongo omega-6s were linoleic acid. If they're something even weirder, then we may just excrete them unused rather than storing them or building body tissues with them.
You know I think you're right. He looks starving thin, except for that pot belly. On the other hand they don't generally look like that if you just look for images of San Bushmen.
Very possibly! But they were not obese or even a bit rounded, they were average BMI 19, as humans should be.
So case closed? PUFAs don't cause obesity?
Also heart disease, fatigue, sunburn....
Sunburn's the one that's really freaking me out, I though we had that in the bag. These people live in Africa and they certainly haven't been covering themselves in factor 40 for the last six centuries. Why are they not dead?
Bushmen get a lot of exercise. Both exercise and fasting cause the body to preferentially utilize linoleic acid molecules to meet energy needs. "During fasting/refeeding cycles and increased levels of exercise, tissue PUFA concentrations have been shown to deplete rapidly in both humans and rats." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5167222/#pone.0167608.ref040
Another consideration it the fact that "When cells are exposed to high concentrations of various unsaturated fatty acids, these fatty acids compete for the limited capacity to be incorporated into the sn-2 position of phospholipids via the reacylation cycle."
What's the significance? The sn-2 position of phospholipids is where arachidonic acid molecules reside. When the concentration (percentage) of arachidonic acid molecules gets too high, overproduction of eicosanoids and endocannabinoids becomes a problem.
How do arachidonic acid concentrations in phospholipids become excessive? That happens through dietary intake of preformed arachidonic acid found in animal products derived from livestock fed mostly grain. (1919) “Seed mixtures, no matter how complex or what seeds they are derived from, will never induce optimal nutrition. The only successful combination of natural foods or milled products for the nutrition of an animal are combinations of seeds or other milled products with sufficient amounts of the leaves of plants.” (The Newer Knowledge of Nutrition by E.V. McCollum) For further clarification: https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/224/8/jeb232538/256572/The-under-appreciated-fats-of-life-the-two-types
Note that the global obesity/diabetes epidemic coincides with the transition from pastured livestock to grain-fed animal husbandry in concentrated animal feeding operations. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5093368/
They are apparently high in VItamin E, 565mg per 100 grams of shelled nuts according to Wikipedia. Vitamin E content would negate some of the ill effects of the PUFA, not unlike the vitamin E content in almonds and peanuts.
Antioxidants are neat, and will stop some of the lipid peroxidation, but antioxidants need to be powered somehow. We already have plenty of them, just having lots of spare ones around probably just clogs up your system with used-up antioxidants.
Otherwise heavy antioxidant supplementation would fix everything we think is caused by 'lipid peroxidation', and as far as I know, it has no such effects.
I believe vitamin E supplements DO work as I use them myself for a variety of reasons. But, it’s probably better to get these vitamins from food because the vitamins within work in concert with other vitamins and compounds that are also present. Wasn’t Ancel Keys who noted in the starvation study that supplemental vitamins were only effective if taken with foods/nutritious diet? Taken alone, they were not effective as I recall.
> Wasn’t Ancel Keys who noted in the starvation study that supplemental vitamins were only effective if taken with foods/nutritious diet? Taken alone, they were not effective as I recall.
Basically, his conclusion was increased calories, not increased protein and vitamins, had the biggest effect on recovery for the starvation study participants. He also made a similar conclusion in his study on soldiers and fatigue, I believe.
I am looking for that information but so far have not found it. I just remember learning that while learning about this starvation experiment. The gist is that actual food is the catalyst that allows supplemental vitamins to be absorbed.
My guess is whole foods like these nuts have the correct ratio of antioxidant compounds to both not go rancid very quickly in hot weather and also not overwhelm the human biological system with excess antioxidant activity. Isolated vitamin E supplements may not work in the same way is a food that is naturally high in vitamin E.
??? Likewise, great reduction of n-6 in my diet has resolved a # of health issues. never goin' back, again.
About the mongongo - "The high content of α-eleostearic acid, a conjugated linolenic acid, is a key characteristic that differentiates mongongo oil from other plant oils." No idea what that implies, but may be a clue.
Oh that's a good point, I was assuming that Mongongo omega-6s were linoleic acid. If they're something even weirder, then we may just excrete them unused rather than storing them or building body tissues with them.
Hm still 36% linoleic acid in some studies?
Yes in fact I think they've got a bucket of PUFA in them, lots of LA plus the other stuff!
Ok finally looked into that study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1799259/pdf/brmedj02672-0042.pdf
That bushman looks skinny fat to me. His belly is almost pregnant looking. Post-prandial glucose control is diabetic.
You know I think you're right. He looks starving thin, except for that pot belly. On the other hand they don't generally look like that if you just look for images of San Bushmen.
"Compared with 10 non-obese white controls, they showed relative glucose intolerance and significantly impaired insulin secretion."
They eat mongongos. They are less glucose tolerant than white control group people.
Case closed? PUFA bad.
Very possibly! But they were not obese or even a bit rounded, they were average BMI 19, as humans should be.
So case closed? PUFAs don't cause obesity?
Also heart disease, fatigue, sunburn....
Sunburn's the one that's really freaking me out, I though we had that in the bag. These people live in Africa and they certainly haven't been covering themselves in factor 40 for the last six centuries. Why are they not dead?
Think we still need more. How much of that stuff are they eating, and how often? Nuts are seasonal.
Oh for sure, it could be that they don't actually eat that many of these nuts. We need fat biopsies.
Bushmen get a lot of exercise. Both exercise and fasting cause the body to preferentially utilize linoleic acid molecules to meet energy needs. "During fasting/refeeding cycles and increased levels of exercise, tissue PUFA concentrations have been shown to deplete rapidly in both humans and rats." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5167222/#pone.0167608.ref040
Another consideration it the fact that "When cells are exposed to high concentrations of various unsaturated fatty acids, these fatty acids compete for the limited capacity to be incorporated into the sn-2 position of phospholipids via the reacylation cycle."
What's the significance? The sn-2 position of phospholipids is where arachidonic acid molecules reside. When the concentration (percentage) of arachidonic acid molecules gets too high, overproduction of eicosanoids and endocannabinoids becomes a problem.
How do arachidonic acid concentrations in phospholipids become excessive? That happens through dietary intake of preformed arachidonic acid found in animal products derived from livestock fed mostly grain. (1919) “Seed mixtures, no matter how complex or what seeds they are derived from, will never induce optimal nutrition. The only successful combination of natural foods or milled products for the nutrition of an animal are combinations of seeds or other milled products with sufficient amounts of the leaves of plants.” (The Newer Knowledge of Nutrition by E.V. McCollum) For further clarification: https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/224/8/jeb232538/256572/The-under-appreciated-fats-of-life-the-two-types
Note that the global obesity/diabetes epidemic coincides with the transition from pastured livestock to grain-fed animal husbandry in concentrated animal feeding operations. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5093368/
Great, thanks! I will think about all that...
They are apparently high in VItamin E, 565mg per 100 grams of shelled nuts according to Wikipedia. Vitamin E content would negate some of the ill effects of the PUFA, not unlike the vitamin E content in almonds and peanuts.
Antioxidants are neat, and will stop some of the lipid peroxidation, but antioxidants need to be powered somehow. We already have plenty of them, just having lots of spare ones around probably just clogs up your system with used-up antioxidants.
Otherwise heavy antioxidant supplementation would fix everything we think is caused by 'lipid peroxidation', and as far as I know, it has no such effects.
Anyway, dietary paradoxes intrigue me and I love trying to figure out that part that has been overlooked, that would explain the paradox away.
Just so. The "Paradoxes" are the *interesting* things. The places that show you that you're wrong about something.
I believe vitamin E supplements DO work as I use them myself for a variety of reasons. But, it’s probably better to get these vitamins from food because the vitamins within work in concert with other vitamins and compounds that are also present. Wasn’t Ancel Keys who noted in the starvation study that supplemental vitamins were only effective if taken with foods/nutritious diet? Taken alone, they were not effective as I recall.
> Wasn’t Ancel Keys who noted in the starvation study that supplemental vitamins were only effective if taken with foods/nutritious diet? Taken alone, they were not effective as I recall.
Oh, that's interesting, thanks! Can you cite?
This is the closest I could come to finding a comment about vitamin supplementation without sourcing the actual paper:
https://www.mnhs.org/mnopedia/search/index/event/starvation-experiment-dr-ancel-keys-1944-1945
Basically, his conclusion was increased calories, not increased protein and vitamins, had the biggest effect on recovery for the starvation study participants. He also made a similar conclusion in his study on soldiers and fatigue, I believe.
I am looking for that information but so far have not found it. I just remember learning that while learning about this starvation experiment. The gist is that actual food is the catalyst that allows supplemental vitamins to be absorbed.
My guess is whole foods like these nuts have the correct ratio of antioxidant compounds to both not go rancid very quickly in hot weather and also not overwhelm the human biological system with excess antioxidant activity. Isolated vitamin E supplements may not work in the same way is a food that is naturally high in vitamin E.
> correct ratio of antioxidant compounds to [..] not go rancid very quickly in hot weather
This bit I will totally buy, that's probably why there's so much vitamin E in the nuts in the first place.
>Isolated vitamin E supplements may not work in the same way is a food that is naturally high in vitamin E
Maybe, but I'd like to know why. Vitamin supplements do cure vitamin deficiency diseases!